Sons of Anarchy stars Ron Perlman and Theo Rossi have plenty of projects to discuss, and more to come.
This year alone, they have starred in Come With Me and The Saviors, two independent films that confront the thousand cuts of navigating modern society. Now the pair are hot on the heels of their latest project, Renew, an upcoming horror movie they filmed in secret and announced earlier this month. Perlman and Rossi took time to speak with FANGORIA about their recent work and what's next.
Ron Perlman may sound abrasive. And not just literally; he’s become well known for his trademark low, rough, hypnotic voice. He’s also unafraid to die on certain hills, and he won’t hesitate to call a spade a spade. Also, he says “fuck” a lot. But filmmakers and other creators who often feel daunted by the rapidly changing, sometimes degrading industry around them may feel comforted knowing someone like Perlman, and his frequent costar and collaborator, Theo Rossi, has his back.
Since their time working together began with Sons of Anarchy, Perlman and Rossi have had a fraternal relationship, kindled by their shared background. “From the minute we started [Sons of Anarchy],” Perlman says, “every relationship was completely standalone, different … but Theo was always this New York kid, and I was a New York kid … I still call him my kid brother. And then, of course, as I got to know him, I realized that this love for cinema was voracious.”
“Voracious” seems fitting, given how much Rossi has taken on. And his hunger for filmmaking is nowhere near sated. “We’re gunslingers,” he says. “We just want to film.” But a movie is more than just filming. “Honestly, I'm learning that that might be the easier part of the process right now. It's like, how does anybody see your movie?”
But Perlman sees the initiative Rossi has to offer, and is quick to commend him, saying, “A lot of people get ideas. I've watched what Theo has to fucking navigate … It takes way more than an imagination. It takes a kind of a determination and—what was the word I used?”
“Insanity,” Rossi responds, laughing.
It doesn’t take much to get Rossi talking about cinema in rapturous tones. He speaks at length about his admiration for directors like John Cassavetes, Martin Scorsese, and Quentin Tarantino. He expresses his love for great special effects artists like Rick Baker, Dick Smith, and Steven Johnson, and actors like Greta Garbo and Bette Davis.
Rossi’s appreciation for film in all its forms has also broadened thanks to his son’s interests. “I'm not boxed in by anything,” he says. “I love every type of movie. There's really no type of film that I don't like. I thought it was horror for a while, and now I love horror because my 9-year-old is so into it. So now I'm really deep down the rabbit hole on horror, and I'm loving it in every way, the complexities of it.”
However, Perlman has a different take on genre, despite a legacy coated in fake blood and prosthetic makeup. “I never categorize anything that I'm trying to do,” Perlman says. “I'm just addicted to great storytelling, whether it be a period piece, modern, whether it looks at a family in Rwanda or Kentucky, whether it be scary or witty or whatever it is. The only thing I'm interested in is how effectively it tells its story. I understand the categorization of things, but I'm not one to play that game.”
Regardless of genre, Perlman sees potential in Renew. “It's got some really colorful characters and backdrops in it,” he says. “The team that made the film brought their A-game.” But because the film is still in post-production, he is reluctant to spill too much. “We just finished filming it really a short time ago, and it's got a ways to go.”
According to Rossi, Renew has been on his mind since the writers’ strike. According to the lore, Renew director Tommy DeNucci and Rossi brought in a professional streamer who wanted to break into the film industry just before the strikes began.
“We had provided a few movies for them that Tommy and I had written,” Rossi says. “And then my producing partner, Demetrius Stear, had been a part of really cranking out movies for them. So we were like, oh, this is going to be our new home. We're going to transfer here and really just start watching this outlet become a competitor with all these other bigger ones. And we felt like we were getting in on the ground floor.”
After the writers’ strike, Rossi looked to independent filmmaking instead and began work on projects that were almost left behind. “And one of them was this one that I really loved because it was like a rom-com that turns into a horror in this really violent way, in the form of Hostel or Misery.” This project would be none other than Renew. Rossi co-wrote the script with DeNucci, and Perlman was just a phone call away.
“Anytime there's anything I can play in there, [Rossi] says, I got one for you,” Perlman says. “I say, when and where? And that's the beginning of whatever stroll we take. Renew was great because it had my wife Allison [Dunbar], who was in it as well. And we all got to work together, and it's like a big family affair.”
The pair’s familial bond is evident in their frequent collaborations. Earlier this year, Come With Me premiered at the Beverly Hills Film Festival, starring Rossi as a blue-collar worker down on his luck and Perlman as a local radio host who espouses ultra-conservative rhetoric. The film is understated, thorough, and enthralling. Rossi says this, too, is a horror movie.
“I always said [Come With Me] is a horror movie in a way,” Rossi says, “because it's a horror that, that stuff is going on every day.” The story is full of friction and uncomfortable realities, but Rossi reveled in the opportunity to tell it. “With Come With Me specifically, it was like, okay, we're gonna rattle some cages here, and we're gonna make people think about something, and it's gonna be uncomfortable … It's not everybody's style, but we're gonna force you to think about something.”
A relatively recent convert to the church of horror cinema, Rossi has plenty to say about his appreciation of the genre. He loves horror for the same reason he loves playing the villain. “The reason I like playing bad guys is because they're bound by nothing,” he says. “With horror, there's an unpredictability … anything can happen … It's a genre that's bound by nothing, and I think that's cool.”
Perlman, not one to yield to labels, still shares his perspective on horror directors he’s encountered throughout his career. “All I will say is that I've been on the set with a bunch of pretty special horror directors,” he says, “and they are as obsessed with the genre as Theo is. The one common thread that all of them have is that when it comes time for the money shot, they all look down at what's happening on the set, and they all go, ‘Oh, more blood.’” It doesn’t take a detective to deduce that Perlman may be channeling another longtime collaborator's work.
It’s difficult not to be swept up in Rossi’s enthusiasm and Perlman’s convictions. When I mention that It Ends director Alex Ullom spoke with the same excitement and tenacity as both of them, Rossi lights up. “That generation’s going to save us,” Rossi says. “They love cinema.” Both actors are quick to praise the success of Obsession and how movies like it so beautifully fly in the face of Hollywood’s expectations.
“We're at a tipping point right now where everybody who we regard as mainstream are starting to cannibalize and burn themselves out,” Perlman says, not bothering to hide the ire in his voice. “They've spent so much time exploiting safe names and brands and keeping out the real, dangerous young original voices.” It’s almost a comfort to hear Perlman vent from the gut about the most frustrating aspects of modern filmmaking, to know there are voices as prominent as his who aren’t about to roll over and take it.
“The industry keeps downsizing because these people are making these fucking Marie Antoinette bets, spending $180 million on a movie that should have cost $22 million. And wondering why they can't break even. Well, people are gonna get fired when that shit happens, aren't they? So the pie keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And yet the people who are making all the money right now are making obscene amounts of money.”
Rossi is in agreement. He says:
“The young voices, who are now populating the cinema at a record rate, are going to change this business because they're going to be the ones taking the risk. And they're not going to be beholden to anyone. And if the studios try to cannibalize them after the fact by offering them all the riches, a lot of them are going to say, ‘Sorry, go fuck yourself.’”
A hit like Obsession is never a guarantee, but for his part, Perlman is putting his money where his mouth is through his work at Asylm Studios. “This community of storytellers and the shoulders upon which we stand for the 100 years that this art form has existed is way, way more magnificent and grandiose than what is reflected in the current environment,” says Perlman. “And we need to return to that … We love movies. We love people who make movies. And that's what we're going to do.”
Rossi is up for the challenge, bringing the infectious punk-rock energy so romantically entangled with independent filmmaking. He reminisces fondly about watching dailies while living and cooking with his assistant director and director of photography. “I think it's a miracle when any movie gets made,” he says. “I think it's even more of a miracle, almost like a unicorn flying with fire coming out of its ass wearing underoos miracle, if the movie is any good.” Despite unpredictable obstacles and uncertain results, however, Rossi is far from finished.
“I just want to keep making [movies],” Rossi says. “I want to make all different ones.” For now, there’s no end in sight. “I'm gonna keep doing this until it ultimately kills me. And make no mistake, it will kill me.”
